Sparks began tying in early 2015. Learning quickly both locally and travelling interstate at every chance to further knowledge. Sparks began an educational role in 2016 and not long there after, began teaching and performing interstate. Rope has since carried through to teaching and performing internationally and travelling to Japan to further continue his education, achieving the position of deshi to Nawashi Akechi Kanna Sensei and recieved his teaching certificate in the style of KannaRyu.

Running a studio locally in Adelaide (Shibari Adelaide) he takes pride in the joy of others and growth in the rope community, as well as continually looking for positive self development along the way.

His early trouble shooting and un-canny memory enables him to modify and skillfully adapt ties to each model. The deep intimacy and connections conveyed through rope, along with a sadistic flavour, is what Sparks enjoys most about shibari.
'Rope is a tool used to play with your partner'

Instagram: @nawashisupaku
Twitter: @SupakuRope

[00:00:07] Wren Hello to all my guys, gals and non-binary pals. Welcome to the Shibari Study podcast. I'm your host, Wren. Shibari Study is an online learning resource offering video tutorials for beginners through advanced practitioners. Whether you're brand new to the world of shibari and needing to learn the basics, or a seasoned rigger or bottom seeking inspiration to push your practice to new places, there's something for you at shibaristudy.com. Today, I'm talking to Sparks. You'll know sparks as Sparks Supaku online. Uses he/him pronouns, and he's been doing rope for about a decade. [00:00:46]Is deshi to Connor Ryu [1.4s] and started Shibari Adelaide in Australia. So excited to talk to you today. How are you?

[00:00:54] Sparks Very good. Thank you. And thank you so much for reaching out and having me on board.

[00:00:58] Wren You're so welcome. Before this started, you said one of the most controversial things that has ever been said. And you said that there is a method to making ice cream properly. What does that mean?

[00:01:13] Sparks Absolutely. Yes. The ice cream. My eating habits, particularly, like, not eating habits, have become quite a bit of a thing. There is a... Yeah, like I said, method to ice cream. I have some rules making ice cream. You can only do three different toppings on an ice cream. They have to be, have to be different consistencies. So you can't put like strawberry topping, chocolate topping and caramel topping. If you did do like, cookie chunks, some caramel like topping and then maybe some little white chocolate bits. So they're very separate different toppings. And I always use a vanilla base.

[00:01:54] Wren Wow. This is big stuff. This is groundshattering things. So you're only using vanilla base. Have you had other kinds of ice cream before?

[00:02:03] Sparks Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:04] Wren But they just don't do it.

[00:02:06] Sparks It doesn't do the same. You're just overpowering all the other flavors with a different flavor.

[00:02:11] Wren It sounds like to you ice cream is more of a whole concept. It's a whole process. Because when I think of ice cream, I don't usually think of the toppings. The toppings come extra. But to you, it sounds like the toppings are really important.

[00:02:26] Sparks Absolutely, the toppings are important .not only just the toppings themselves, but to make sure the toppings you're grouping with each other, they all need to match on the same flavor palette.

[00:02:37] Wren The synergy is really important. Do you mix fruit and chocolate?

[00:02:41] Sparks Yeah, you can mix fruit and chocolate.

[00:02:43] Okay. You're allowed.

[00:02:43] Sparks But like... Yeah, that's fine, but I wouldn't mix.. So for example, strawberry doesn't go with caramel.

[00:02:50] Wren I would agree with that. I would agree. Now I have a question. What if people want to put gummy worms in with chocolate or something like that? Is that okay? I have my thoughts.

[00:03:01] Sparks Gotta get, gotta get your ratios right.

[00:03:04] Wren It's all about ratios at that point.

[00:03:06] Sparks There's a ratio to it. Yeah. There's ratios there. If I was to go, normally if I was go with something like gummy bears then I'd be mixing it with maybe say a sherbet sprinkling over the top of the ice cream to go along with it, like, so that comes in that still same sweet lolly category.

[00:03:23] Wren Wow, wow. I would love to know more about the different categories that ice creams fall into. I would love to know more about this, but I think we have to get into rope bondage or else Shibari Study is going to be mad at me.

[00:03:39] Sparks Probably at some point.

[00:03:39] Wren So you obviously found (…) and rope at some point. What was that like? How was your first instance with with rope and (…)?

[00:03:47] Sparks Oh. It's... So my now wife and I, we actually met online, and then about 2 or 3 weeks into it, we went to a (…) party and we saw a rope performance. And then we were like, cuz we were both interested in (…) at that stage and so very new to it, very new to each other. And I went, that looks really good. Let's find somewhere where we can do that. Then the next week we found a place, started learning. And then essentially, you know, it just kept going from there. The relationship we built through rope and the community we met, the people that influenced our lives from there. We then started, you know, tying together, tying a lot more often and grew into now married house and a child together nine years later. So...

[00:04:37] Wren Were you two... Were you two married before you got into rope or no?

[00:04:42] Sparks No, we-- the first six months of us doing rope, we both would say to each other like, this is just a casual, fun thing. We don't know whether we'll be here next week. But eventually it was like, I guess we're kind of going to be here next week.

[00:04:55] Wren I love that. And then–

[00:04:57] Sparks So I'll always say to people when they first start rope, like, it's like, Oh, it's just friends. We're just starting rope together. I always say, be careful who you get into rope with.

[00:05:06] Wren Yes. Yeah, well, rope is a very intense thing to do with somebody else.

[00:05:11] Sparks Exactly. Very intimate. And it really helped our communication in our relationship. Neither of us were fantastic at it and starting rope together and you know having to talk through things and fading back off of each other. And that stuff was just fantastic for us.

[00:05:27] Wren Yeah. It really forces a lot of communication in a lot of ways. You can't hide a lot of things going on.

[00:05:34] Sparks No, you can't, and you need to be able to understand the other one's perspective too. Like particularly as you start getting further through into, you know, the more complicated stuff.

[00:05:44] Wren How have– I'm kind of jumping forward here, but I think it's a good time to talk about this. How have you and her been able to foster a good relationship, a healthy relationship, while doing rope and growing and having kids and buying a house and all this kind of stuff together over nine years, a decade. That's a long time. Most people can't do that without rope.

[00:06:10] Sparks No. It's hasn't always been lovely and not always easy. But essentially, I guess it comes to we're working towards a common goal with each other and yeah, just talk through things and I know it kind of, it works. We both sympathize with each other a lot and can talk. And so yeah, it's...

[00:06:33] Wren Yeah, that's awesome. It's always cool to me to hear couples that do rope and have been together for a really long time. Does your wife also top at all or is she only a bottom?

[00:06:45] Sparks Yeah. So we essentially started the first few years, she would just tie solely together and she was the bottom. Then about probably two years into it, she thought she'd give rigging a go as well. And so she started topping. And then as we progressed through things, started tapering less of the bottoming side of it. Her personality started to change. And she just started to have that more of a lean towards the topping side of things. And as our situation changed with trying for child and all that kind of stuff, the kind of bottoming side backed off again and then.. So yeah. Now it's a bit... The situation is quite different now with home life and rope life. There's a lot less of the rope and (…) life for particularly her.

[00:07:34] Wren It is kind of fun to think about. Your kid is going to grow up and you're like, my parents are the weird rope people.

[00:07:43] Sparks Yeah, I don't know. I think it's already come into him a little bit. Like I get rope out, and I just bundling it, chopping it up, cutting lengths. And he is fighting for it, laughing at it and yeah, he loves it.

[00:07:55] Wren I love it. He's going to be on the Shibari Study podcast one day and it's gonna be like, How did you find rope? He's like, Well, my dad, my mom...

[00:08:04] Sparks He's like, Well, I kind of was doing it before I knew what it was.

[00:08:08] Wren I love that. So you're in Australia. What's the community like when you came in versus now?

[00:08:16] Sparks The... Yeah, rope community back when we started was very, very underground. Hard to find. Very few places. You had to essentially reach out on FL for it no matter what you wanted to do. As I'm sure a lot of places were back then, it was a lot more hush-hush. And then it kind of, when I started it, I noticed that, alright, this thing actually, it's... well, it's not as weird as what you think it's going to be when you first start. Two, there's some amazing people in the community as it is. And it was growing, becoming very, very popular. A lot of people were joining it, but not many were leaving. So it was like, this is... Yeah, it's growing. And then through social media and as things started becoming a little bit more acceptable in social media, you know, you could find places off of FL. Community started to grow, a couple of other places started to open up. And yeah, all around Australia it's become a lot more easy to find, a lot more accessible to everyone. And so I think it's just in general, it's become more of a, you know, more of an accepted thing as, as not only rope and (…), but sexuality and all that kind of stuff becomes more accepted and more spoken about, I guess, in today's time rather than ten years ago.

[00:09:38] Wren Yeah, totally. How did you learn in the beginning? What resources were around?

[00:09:44] Sparks We jumped straight into in-person classes, group classes, weekly, and then we traveled interstate whenever we could to whenever an international guest teacher was coming in. Someone that we would, you know, travel to Sydney or Melbourne and do classes and just did as much as we could in person. And then through– because there wasn't much online back then. It was– online stuff really started, really took off with Covid time and provides people with a lot easier access to it now, which is fantastic. Yeah, but but it's, it's in-person tuition. Yeah. It was essentially where we, where we started off.

[00:10:26] Wren Yeah. Online resources are great. Obviously, Shibari Study pays for the podcast. They're phenomenal. We really love them. But they'll even say that there's nothing to replace in-person training. It's a supplement.

[00:10:40] Sparks There is not– yeah there is nothing to replace in-person training. I think the best combination is be going to somewhere regularly if you can in-person and yeah, like using like you say that online sources like Shibari Study for a supplement because as we know, there's there are pitfalls. There are pitfalls with it. But if you're doing the online and in-person and you have someone to watch really closely what's happening and going on as well. And I think that that personality that can change to fit you and your learning style as well is really helpful too.

[00:11:12] Wren Agreed. And pointing out things like tension, stuff like that, or even rope handling. Ways you're interacting, that's super helpful and hard to get on.

[00:11:22] Sparks Yeah, and because when you're online, you only got one interpretation, your interpretation. And if your interpretation of what they're teaching isn't quite right, then there's no one to pick you up.

[00:11:31] Wren That's a really good point. And that's something I've never thought about. You only have one interpretation, and it's your interpretation. Did you have someone point that out to you at some point?

[00:11:44] Sparks I think it came from essentially when... I think, yeah, I think it came from when I was trying to learn some online stuff. And also when I would be teaching and someone would come to me saying, Oh, I've learned this online. And then they'd tie something, for example, like a cross friction or something like that. And I was like, you've almost got it right. And they're like, No, it was going, I'm watching the video and they're going over, and I'm like, Can you show me the video? Because I'm generally interested, if they are, then they are. I'm like, Oh no, they're not going over, they're just, their finger has done a little flick before they've pulled the rope, which is tricking you into thinking it looking like it. So it's little, even little things like that.

[00:12:28] Wren Yeah. I also want to talk about Kanna and Kanna-style rope. And he was a huge teacher for you. How did approaching Kanna work? How did learning under him work? Those kinds of things?

[00:12:41] Sparks Yeah. So we learned... Essentially our base was under an Akechi style, so very, very similar. And Kanna at the time was coming to Sydney, at least once a year. So we would go over there and do workshops and private lessons with him. We did that four years in a row, and then it got to the end of the fourth, like the third and fourth year of going to Sydney and learning from him, from them personally. And I was like, I'm really enjoying this a lot more than any of the other styles that we're learning. This is just working for me. It's really fitting for me. So I'm probably not going to do many lessons outside of anything that kind of style or very similar. And then so we approached him, we asked him, I would love to travel to Japan to experience the culture and that kind of stuff around, right? And would love to come and learn from him. And Kanna and Kagura, of course, like lovely– thank you. I'd love to have you over, love to teach and stuff and then yeah. So we went there and we did a, a week and a half with them, did six hours of lessons for six days in a row. So absolutely brain dead by the end of that.

[00:13:54] Wren Yeah. How were your fingers?

[00:13:57] Sparks Fingers was alright. Fingers were– mentally I was... Every night just gone.

[00:14:03] Wren At that point, you knew patterns. You knew how to tie somebody, how to suspend somebody. You understood uplines. All the things, you had a working knowledge of rope, correct?

[00:14:16] Sparks Yeah. Correct.

[00:14:17] Wren So you went in. What's that?

[00:14:20] Sparks Oh I said, well, I thought I knew patterns really well.

[00:14:23] Wren So this is my question is that what did you two work on? Like you said, you thought you knew patterns well, expand on that.

[00:14:33] Sparks Yeah. It was when we were in Japan in the first... Yeah. And after the first couple of days, [00:14:40]the conversation came up about potentially becoming a deshi under Kanna. And they're looking and they said, We're not going to answer now. However, if that is something that you would be open to and you would like, then the lessons will change a bit and it will be up to– I will choose what we learn, and then I will assess by the end of the week and give you the answer at the end, because the decision included so much more than just what you can actually tie. In fact, that is the smallest part of the decision, is what you can actually tie. The biggest part is personality. How does your personality fit in with Kanna's and Kagura's opinions and, or the situation, and your relationships outside of rope as well all come into the decision and whether I accept you as a deshi. And so the next lesson they said, Okay, today we're going to do TKs. And I was like, I've been tying TKs for five years. I'm thinking to myself, I'm tying these for five year., I'm pretty, pretty sure, six hours of a TKs, I'm going to get over it. But I tell you, I have never learned so much more about a Takate Kote than I did in those six hours from. From things I was already doing that I didn't know why or how they were working, to other options, to different ways to do things. Different opinions on things. And yeah, it was incredible. [90.0s]

[00:16:11] Wren It sounds like that's what take somebody from really, really proficient to the next level.

[00:16:17] Sparks Yeah. That, that kind of level of in-depth like deep diving into a TK. It opened up so many different possibilities, I guess, within just that one structure, let alone applying those principles to every other sort of pattern and structure as you go. But yeah, it really, to me, I think it was the difference between being able to be comfortably and confidently tying the one partner that I've been tying regularly to having a better understanding of being able to change things to suit multiple people like, and understand how that works.

[00:16:59] Wren What is that about Kanna style that you liked?

[00:17:04] Sparks The Kanna style, so... [00:17:07]Our first impression of Kanna style when we did lessons was the amazing interaction that he would have with Kagura-san. Kanna and Kagura's energy and interactions through rope and the connection through rope, it was just incredible to watch. That paired with the level of (…) and the type of (…) that Kanna puts in and the suffering through Kagura. It was beautiful, like it was... It's, there's no such, there's no better example, I guess, of beauty is pain than watching those two tie. And then it, it came to– so I guess the, yeah, the (…) part of it, the intention of everything that happened, like intentions behind where ropes were, what, what variation are we doing for what feeling. That kind of stuff. To the (…) within the ties himself. And then like I've mentioned before going through the TK, the adaptability and then the level of creativity that you are allowed and afforded within Kanna doing it and encouraged to have to make those principles and structures our own and to fit our personality. [74.4s]

[00:18:23] Wren That was my next question. [00:18:24]How do you take such a well-known style, such a imitated style, such a studied style, and make it your own, find your own expression within that? [10.2s]

[00:18:36] Sparks It's hard and particularly because of the amount of options and how, how easy and how well you can adapt Kanna style and harnesses within it. It is super hard to make things your own and your own individuality because it's like if you come up with a different, different idea, put hojo cuffs here or wraps here instead. Kanna will look at it and be like, Oh yeah, I've probably done, I've done that stuff before. It's whatever. Like, there's just that creativity. I guess it just comes from. I don't know. [00:19:12]You choosing to do something for your own personal taste. And it depends on the situation. [4.7s] But yeah, it's so hard.

[00:19:20] Wren Are you a person that likes having walls? Do you like the constraints?

[00:19:27] Sparks [00:19:27]I like having the principles and the rules. Like the methods and stuff of how to build something and the principles behind that structure, but then also the knowledge of how to manipulate that structure to fit a different outcome. [17.5s] So it's kind of like... I guess it's kind of like math, you know, you know, one plus one equals two, but you can put other numbers in there. And the methods and principles of getting an answer are the same. But you either need to change, change your path to get to a different answer. [00:20:04]So you kind of both have rules, but you also have creativity at the same time. [5.1s] So that level of being able to fit, Okay, what elements do I want to work for me here? Gives you, I guess, that level of freedom. But it's still under, within that rules, within that toolkit that you've been given.

[00:20:31] Wren You just talked about outcomes and we talked about (…). And I want to discuss both those things because Kanna has an outcome when he ties. And you talked about (…) in there too. What do you look at your outcomes as when you're tying? Like what do you want? Do you interact with (…) in the same way as your teacher?

[00:20:55] Sparks Very similarly, yeah. I, I enjoy, I take pleasure in someone else's suffering consensually, obviously. Like I get a lot of enjoyment and I guess it's fun for me and I find it amusing, like, you know, causing pain and hurting, but carefully and along those, along those lines. And there's lots of different ways that you can do that whether it's the position you're putting someone in, like you're bending them backwards, slowing down breathing, putting pressure through the body or it can be things like crotch rope or neck rope and those kind of things that are a bit more direct and more easy to measure. But either way, I believe that through pain and through that level of suffering in someone, it can unlock like this euphoric kind of state for someone and this, this incredible sense of pleasure within certain people and very rewarding for people as well. Like, there's lots of different reasons why someone might like pain. And I really enjoy being someone who can unlock that kind of sensation and experience for someone.

[00:22:07] Wren Yeah. You were also talking about adaptability and that in different kinds of bodies, different harnesses, different ways to tie different outcomes, maybe for people. And I would love to talk about that with respect to having a style that you tie in, because [00:22:29]adaptability and a specific style generally don't go together. So how do those two things work together? [7.0s]

[00:22:38] Sparks Okay. So as you're talking there, I can think of already a prime example. For example, I'm a sucker for a good tengu harness, I love tengu. And, so one of the problems that I did have when tying a tengu knot long ago is, there was a waist rope that would be lifted up in a direction in a vertical type position, and it would become the pressures on that person, and they couldn't handle the diaphragm pressure. That was something mentally was quite triggering for them across the diaphragm. So one, you had to then adapt to the harness to take it away from the diaphragm. And like you said, to fit in with a certain style, [00:23:17]how do you keep it... Like, (…) and torturous, but still be sustainable and fit within the style itself? So really simply, before coming up to the doing the harness, it was locked on to the waist rope, I turned the waist rope into a crotch rope, so then that through the crotch is pulled, the waist rope is pulled down on the body, meaning it cant slip up into the diaphragm. But now the pressures are getting pulled through a crotch rope, so it's still (…) as well as being sustainable for the person it's being tied on which in Kanna's rule, there's a bit of a funny term called supporture. So supportive torture. [41.8s]

[00:24:01] Wren Talk to me more about supporture.

[00:24:04] Sparks It's, I'm not exactly sure where it comes from because I've jumped into a zoom meeting a couple of years ago and they were using it, I think it was from one of Kanna's workshop somewhere. Someone said, Ah, supporture. Like, it's supportive, but it's also torturous. And it pretty sure it was in reference to a crotch rope. So it's that funny terms come out of it, and it works so well.

[00:24:27] Wren It really does. That's cool that you do that with the tengu though. I find for myself, heavy waist rope is one of the first things to make me tap early. And that never feels good for me and never feels good for a top. It just feels bad when you have to end something before you want to just because you feel like you're going to throw up because there's a rope cutting you in half.

[00:24:52] Sparks Yeah, and it's a shame. And I think that's one of the fantastic things about understanding how harnesses work. And if someone says, like, I really hate, I can't do a lot of waist rope, I don't like waist rope. Then to be able to go, Okay, fine, we won't do waist, right? You can put rope on the hips, or we can support through the top of the thighs to something instead. Something like that. To be able to understand that and change your harnesses to suit that person is incredibly rewarding for both people rigger and like top and bottom. Because it means the bottom is like, well, they can enjoy themselves a lot more and the top feels– as a top for me, it feels really rewarding to watch someone like, be really happy and enjoy what you've given them. And it gives you back as well. And so it can be little things like what I said about changing just the position of a support wrap, but it can be the difference between changing your arms position entirely or changing whether you load from the legs or the chest or even changing– we might be, we might not do full suspension, we might do partial suspension, which to be honest, partials are my favorite.

[00:26:05] Wren Let's talk about partials. They're also my favorite. I love a partial, and they're always way more (…) than–

[00:26:11] Sparks Absolutely. Way more (…).

[00:26:15] Wren –than a full suspension.

[00:26:16] Sparks You can push someone more comfortable in a partial than you can in a full suspension.

[00:26:21] Wren Yes.

[00:26:22] Sparks And they can be so much harder.

[00:26:24] Wren Yeah. One of the most fun things about rope is... Going against the soft boundary and seeing how far you can go with maybe endurance or something like that. Obviously this is all within a conversation of consent, but that's one of the most fun things to do. And when you're in the air, it brings everything up a lot of levels. But when you're on the ground, you can play with maybe pushing that foot a little too far or pushing something or, or the waist rope. It just doesn't matter that much if you're on the ground. Whereas if you're in a suspension upside down, then it really, really matters.

[00:27:03] Sparks Yeah, it can. It can matter because either there's not a quick way to get down, like, without completely avoiding it or mentally, you're already right on the edge and worried about something because you are in the air. It's yeah, you've got that element there to worry about.

[00:27:20] Wren Do you have any favorite predicaments? I feel like you do.

[00:27:27] Sparks Favorite predicaments. This one fun kind of play element that I've really been enjoying just the last, like month or so. Went to my local hardware store and there was...

[00:27:39] Wren Every good conversation starts with a hardware store.

[00:27:41] Sparks [00:27:41]Every good (…) story starts with a hardware store. [1.5s]

[00:27:44] Wren I went to Home Depot...

[00:27:46] Sparks Yeah, yeah. Ours is called Bunnings. I went to Bunnings and saw these wooden mouse traps and I was like, Yes, I know just the tie for this. I really enjoy-- there's a standing like semi standing leant over partial where you're working your legs and it's like quad torture and calf torture. And then you play with the neck rope so you can't sink in, you (…) or if you stand your legs wear out, but then adding flicking mouse traps towards their fate while they're in that position... Just topped it right off.

[00:28:21] Wren It's just the icing on the cake.

[00:28:25] Sparks Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:28:27] Wren I love that. That's such a fun one. I'm sure that Bunnings and Home Depots across the globe are going to start running out of mouse traps after people listen to this episode.

[00:28:38] Sparks Yeah, yeah. And other than that, my, like, predicament wise, it's, I'm a sucker for anything that plays around with neck pressure, with (…) and that kind of stuff. And crotch rope.

[00:28:52] Wren You brought up adaptability earlier, and something else we were discussing was tying with different people. And I would be curious what your negotiations look like, what that intake process is for tying with someone new.

[00:29:06] Sparks Yeah, absolutely. I think this is a fantastic topic and one that–

[00:29:10] Wren Thank you so much.

[00:29:11] Sparks –A lot of a lot of people have questions and doubts about because how do you, like attempt or approach, tying with someone brand new. What do you talk about? This is something that we actually discussed and thought about when we were opening the studio. So we sat down one New Year's Eve because we're absolutely party animals. So we sat down and we wrote consent forms on our New Year's Eve, one year.

[00:29:36] Wren Bring in the new year.

[00:29:37] Sparks Yeah, absolutely. Bringing in the New Year in style. But... So we have this consent form. It is on our website. So if anyone wants to use it, it is a fantastic tool. Our website is just www.shibariadelaide.com and it's on the bottom of the home page, PDF, print it off, use it wherever you like. [00:30:01]It was designed to cover for lots of relationship dynamics, so it has stuff on there that's relevant for people that have been intimate for the last 20 years. And it's also got stuff on there for people who have only just met and are talking through a tie. And there's a lot of-- the questions on there are designed more to prompt some conversations that you should have before tying. Now, it generally takes me about 20 minutes roughly to go through. So if you're going to be tying with someone, just to spend 20 minutes talking through this kind of stuff is, yeah, nothing. And if someone doesn't want to take that time talking through stuff with you, then should you really be doing it to start off with? [48.0s]

[00:30:49] Wren It's a very good point. It's a very, very good point.

[00:30:52] Sparks [00:30:52]But it covers things like do you have an understanding of nerve injury? What kind of injuries or conditions do you have that I should be aware of? Have you seen rope before? What do you like about rope? Any areas off limits? And then we do have a short little checklist on there. It's more rope specific stuff, because we didn't want to get sucked into bringing in every (…) aspect into the consent form. So it just covers some, some basic stuff that is quite often involved with rope. And then there's a couple of things on there for shock factor as well, just because I've had it before tying someone have said, okay, so what sort of things are off limits? What don't you like? What can't we do? And they said, I'm fine with really everything. And I immediately went, Oh, this is... [50.3s]

[00:31:43] Wren Bad news.

[00:31:44] Sparks Not good. Yeah. Bad news, don't like this. And I said, okay, what about– I thought for myself, let's start fairly simple. What about hair rope? Tying here? And they went, Oh no, no, I don't want my hair being tied. And I'm like, Okay, that's a pretty basic one that just went from our 'anything's fine'.

[00:32:04] Wren Yeah, into no hair rope. Well this is a really good question because obviously that person did have limits, but that person just didn't know how to express those limits. So how do you suggest things in that way? Because I do feel like as a top, it's important to do that. And it can be done in a way that is in neutral playing ground where you're suggesting things like, what if I were to do this? How would that make you feel versus other ways that could not be as effective and could be seen as a little manipulative? So how should those conversations be addressed? Like, how do you pull some of that info out and get their brain moving?

[00:32:47] Sparks I guess that's where the checklist comes in handy, because it's sitting there. That kind of stuff is sitting there written out and it's up to them to go Oh, no. Yes. No. Yes. And obviously right at the top we write, you know, consent can be withdrawn at any time, blah blah, but the form just helps both people look at things and go, Okay, maybe I need to think about this and actually talk about this, and it just brings you closer to the same page together. But also, I, whenever I'm tying with someone new, whether it's new to rope or new to me, I don't– I cannot stress enough how much like, how much this being a positive experience for them is my priority. It's, so if anything I'm doing whatever is negative for you in any way, please sign out right away, because the last thing I want to do is you leaving here regretting or having a negative impact.

[00:33:45] Wren Of course. There's also a lot of joy in leaving stuff on the table the first time. You don't have to do everything the first time.

[00:33:55] Sparks No you don't. You don't have to do it. It's better not to.

[00:33:58] Wren Yeah.

[00:33:58] Sparks And one of the things that you struggle with and like you said, about how do you suggest something or how do you cover, like, lots of things that you might do? But then there's also this risk of how do you just talk about, Okay, what if I did some neck rope, some crotch rope and then laid down on the ground, and then I untied you nice and sensually? If you say just those four things, you go into a tie going Oh, well, I know what's going to happen. Like...

[00:34:26] Wren That's a really good point. I've never thought about that.

[00:34:28] Sparks Yeah. And so instead of saying that kind of stuff like, Okay, what about in a situation, sometime I was to suspend you upside down and dunk you into a pile of water. If you said that to a new person, for example, riding it back to the new person, one, you're not going to do that to a new person. That's, that's far too heavy to do for new people. But if you say that to them, that starts to get them to go, Wow, okay, so something like this could actually happen in rope, I didn't even consider that. But then you ask a few things, and tame it, tame it down as you go. But then it gives them this big air of, I'm not sure what's going to happen because this could be a lot. And so they don't know that all you're going to do today iss, you know, a TK aside with a leg up and playing with a little bit of toy rope or something.

[00:35:21] Wren Yeah. Some of my favorite times I've ever had in rope were just a TK and a leg up.

[00:35:29] Sparks Yeah. I think that comes from rope, essentially. It's not about-- for a lot of people, it's not about feeling the rope. For a lot of people, it's about feeling the interaction with the person who is tying the rope.

[00:35:40] Wren Yeah. Yeah. Have you always had that mindset or did that take a minute to get?

[00:35:46] Sparks It took a while to get. Early on I focused, like many people, get a sucker for focusing too much on technical and focusing too much on learning the next pattern. And we almost quit, right? Like a year, year and a half into it, we almost quit it and gave it up because we just weren't enjoying it anymore. And it took us to watch someone tie super emotionally for it to click. And I went, that is what we're missing. And and then from there, the penny dropped.

[00:36:20] Wren Who was it?

[00:36:22] Sparks Precipice, a rigger from Sydney.

[00:36:25] Wren Why do you think you were so focused on technical things at that time, like put yourself back in that place, why were you so into that?

[00:36:32] Sparks I was very caught up on trying to continually improve. Trying to get better. And the way– my personal measure of how good am I at this new thing was 'how many patterns can I tie?' And like what, how big is my knowledge base. [00:36:50]Completely missing the fact that connection and the emotional side of it is a huge skill set in itself. [5.4s]

[00:36:56] Wren Yeah. I hear that a lot of bottoms are super into when a rope top can tie 70 patterns. That's the thing that–

[00:37:03] Sparks Yeah, they I love it.

[00:37:06] Wren –that's a thing every rope bottom wants, right?

[00:37:09] Sparks Yeah. What's the first thing I get asked. How many patterns can you tie?

[00:37:12] Wren Oh, yeah. Exactly.

[00:37:14] Sparks It's not three digits, I'm not tying with you.

[00:37:16] Wren Yeah. How many times have we heard that, you know? But that is a really cool thing to bring up. And the reason why I ask those things is because I think it's really common for rope tops in the beginning to get super into the technical, and how many versions of this do I know and how many things in my toolbox do I have? Whereas good rope is– if the toolbox has five things in it, but you really know how to use those five things and connect, that's all rope is and people care about, you know?

[00:37:51] Sparks Like you said before, some of your best times were just in a TK and a leg up. Some, I agree some of my best times and most fun in rope has been just two-three ropes thrown messily on the body, like... And it's, there's nothing to it. It's not focusing on what the rope is doing. It's focusing on the interactions with the person.

[00:38:10] Wren Yeah. And also one of my favorite times wasn't even in a rope studio with bamboo. It was just at a, at a house, you know, in, within, in the right place. And that really is what rope is about. That's cool.

[00:38:26] Sparks Hmhm. This is funny, an interesting thing I just picked up when you said in a rope studio with bamboo, is that, is tying on bamboo something that you always utilize for tying? ...Is this weird a question coming back to you?

[00:38:40] Wren No. It's great. I love the questions back. This is what I dream of on this podcast. It's funny because in the beginning I was tied on single points a lot with carabiners, and then I started to get tied in bamboo more. Now I don't care, I get tied on all things, but I do get tied on bamboo a lot now.

[00:39:01] Sparks Yeah. Just, because it's funny, it's... In Canada we always use, well, essentially we pretty much always use a single point. And for the dynamic and the sensation that a single point creates, if you're tying on bamboo, your uplines are quite often really straight. And so the points aren't trying to be pushed together. One of the things around Kanna-ryu and Akechi Denki's way of tying it's... A lot of it, the torture and tying aspect of it is focused around compression, someway. [00:39:39]So by tying on a single point, your lines are always angled inwards at the top. So they're trying to push together at the bottom through the body, which makes the tie itself more difficult. And why I personally use carabiners, with one, as you clip your carabiners on to the next one, it lowers your lines, which is gradually lowering your point as you go and squashing the body further and further that's hanging from it. So you get more compression, the tie becomes more difficult. And also for me, with carabiners I have that added safety, obviously– if I have tied someone a little bit close to the line and we need to come out quickly. I'm quite comfortable just to take the weight off the body or even the weight off a leg and unclip the carabiner, and they can be touching the ground in like a second or two. [47.9s]

[00:40:29] Wren Did you go through a bamboo phase and then back to single points? Was that everything for you?

[00:40:35] Sparks Yeah, I looked at, yeah, definitely. For a while I was like, Oh, bamboo. That's cool. That's cool tying on bamboo. And then I– after I sort of understand the dynamic behind why do we tie on single point, and because I was tying in– back then, when I went through my 'I need to tie on bamboo' stage, I wasn't dedicated under Kanna-ryu. But even though I was tying very similar stuff, things just weren't... It just wasn't hitting quite like it was in a single point. Like, the models weren't, didn't, they found it a little bit easier than tying on a single point and that kind of stuff, so what I was tying wasn't suited to tying it on bamboo. And, after looking at that and then understanding, Well, okay, this is why. Because the dynamics are designed to be different. It, I went back to the single point quite, quite happily.

[00:41:27] Wren I find that most people don't want to tie on a single point because they feel they can't do as much.

[00:41:32] Sparks [00:41:32]I feel like that comes in your intention of what are you trying to do? It's a lot of it is your intention. What do you want to use rope for. And then pick the style of rope that you're doing, the tools that you're using to suit that intention to suit what you want to do with it. [15.5s]

[00:41:49] Wren It's brilliant. That's really, really cool to hear. It's very popular in the US to tie on bamboo. It's what is seen as the standard, and it's probably like that around you as well, I'm not sure, but it is seen as the flagship thing to be tied on. And it is funny because I'm thinking back to a lot of my favorite ties, and it's when up lines are cinched together and there's that compression coming in.

[00:42:22] Sparks Yeah. Now in, in Australia it's very predominantly single point everywhere. And then you can do, if you are tying on a single point staff like I've really love, I found an antique shipping pulley like that six months ago? And being able to tie, for example, like we were saying playing with the partials on those, [00:42:45]like my favorite ties, partial suspension or on the ground still tied to a point, tying that to the bottom of a pulley and then being able to lift the pulley up, which lifts the entire tie off the ground, adds another dynamic and level to the tie. But you can't do that when you're tying on a piece of bamboo. [16.3s]

[00:43:02] Wren That's also really cool is lifting a partial off the ground.

[00:43:07] Sparks So some of the ties I'll do will be designed, so I've folded someone, for example, I folded them backwards into a gaku hebi. Or that, you know, that hog tie tight position legs to the back of the body and then using the single point as you lift the pulley slowly the hips stay trying to drop with gravity to the ground, but you're lifting up the chest and the ankles, for example, which is adding more and more pressure and more suffering into the model. So you can measure like, you can bring it so close to that line of where someone can handle, and then wherever the point gets to lock it off there and enjoy that interaction.

[00:43:51] Wren It's amazing. Your brain is so creative.

[00:43:54] Sparks [00:43:54]I have to hand that to Kanna and a lot of people that influenced me early on for that kind of creativity, it's always been encouraged to put my own personality on things. My own spin on things. [10.6s]

[00:44:05] Wren [00:44:05]It's fun to hear that, because I think the general sentiment around learning from a very established teacher is there's not a lot of creativity, and there's not a lot of place to do your own thing, but you're saying the exact opposite. That's very cool to hear. [15.3s]

[00:44:22] Sparks Yeah, and I'm encouraged to put that onto my own students, too, in the studio. Like, one thing that Kanna always says is he doesn't want to say mini hims, or mini Sparks everywhere. They should all put their own personality on the stuff that we teach.

[00:44:39] Wren It's cool. When someone comes to you and it's their first time in rope, do you treat that differently than you would someone that has been in a rope before?

[00:44:51] Sparks [00:44:51]Yeah, I have a, essentially like a three step process if someone is brand new to rope. If someone's done rope before, and particularly if I've watched them be tied a number of times or even taught them in class, then my tying would be very different with them. Because I already have some sort of understanding of them and know that they know rope in their body to a degree. Whereas if someone's brand new to rope, I follow three particular ties for a first time. My first one will be a single rope. Hands in front. A nice, just essentially just wrapping the rope around the arms, locking them in front. This is a fantastic one to start with for someone who's brand new, because hands in front is a lot less vulnerable than having your hands tied behind your back, which someone hasn't done rope before, they might, they're not used to it. You don't know how they're going to react to being restrained. And it gives them a chance to feel rope on their body, feel what the sensations feel like. Then untie that, give 'em a break. Grab a water. How did you feel? That all okay? Then I'll go into, I'll typically tie a standard variation of a TK without any connection in the tie. So I just tie mental and just tying mechanically saying, How does this feel on your body? Does it feel like it's in any bad spots or anything for you? Getting them to breathe out into it, because then they get the feeling of what it feels like to have their hands tied behind their back, and what it feels like to actually be quite restrained and locked in rope. From there, the untie of it. And because it's usually the first time they've seen themself in rope or in an actual harness that looks like something, they- quite often let them take a photo of it, look in the mirror, that kind of stuff. And then untie it with a bit more connection and nice feeling and play with it. Then after another break, grab some water, such and such, I do a partial suspension, which funnily enough, is the one we spoke about lying on the ground on the side with a leg up. And I play with just laying on the side, standard TK, laying on the side. Braced, you know, TK just braced off the shoulder, and then the top leg, thigh cuff and raise that up, and then put the bottom leg just to the back of the TK, so then both legs have got rope on them. 80% of the body weight is on the ground with just a knee being supported up in the air. And that, like you say, for someone who's brand new in rope, even not much rope, is amazing. And even for people who have been in rope like hundreds of times, not much rope can be amazing. I find those three ties, in that order are a really good intro and a gradual step into rope, and always leaves people feeling as if they have really done rope because they've done some uplines, they've had uplines. They had that leg lifted. They've got that feeling and sensation, so they're always really happy with what they've done. [186.7s]

[00:47:59] Wren [00:47:59]Phenomenal point you just made, making people feel like they've done it, [3.9s] because there's a lot of conversation around, Oh, you're not ready for this yet. Oh, you need some arbitrary metric. And then you can be put in a TK that gets suspended. There's all this stuff that people say. The thing is, is that if someone wants to be suspended, they're going to get suspended. And you doing that in one of the most monitored environments, one of the most monitored ways you can do it is really important.

[00:48:31] Sparks Hmhm. It is really important. Like you said, if someone wants to be suspended, they'll find someone to do it. There's always someone out there who doesn't care. They just want to enjoy and suspend someone, and hang them up. Also, one interesting topic you brought up, which I did start to jump in with my apologies, however, it was... I said, there's this rule, you need to have some sort of metric calculation, you know, this kind of stuff before you can be suspended. That, to me is so interesting because that's a very Western culture type view. I remember, I was in Japan talking about, Oh, there's a show happening and there was, it was a rope show, and this model had never been in rope before, and they were putting themselves up to be tied by four top level riggers for a 4.5 hour show, and they had not been in rope before, and they were just going to walk out on stage and be tied for 4.5 hours and do who knows what. And so it's like there is, there is this measure of... I guess there are safety in both. Models who have done a lot of right before and know their body, know sensations, obviously is an incredibly wealthy and valuable knowledge and skill set. There is also the risk does go down a bit as well if the rigger themselves can control things better. So put pressure on areas that isn't as nerve related risky versus someone who, I've done two suspensions, I can put you up because I know how to do an up line. It's like... Yeaaaaah...

[00:50:18] Wren The other thing that I thought of that you brought up was there's a lot of pressure on me to know my body, to know what it felt like. But I didn't know how anything felt. I had no idea, I didn't know what was a good pain or bad pain, or if this needed to be moved or that or whatever. So even if the TK was perfect, I would have no way to give input on something until I was in it for longer, you know?

[00:50:46] Sparks But what is perfect? What's perfect for you is not perfect for the person next to you.

[00:50:50] Wren Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:50:52] Sparks It's then that, yeah, you start circling back to that adaptability. Having to rate someone from, from things like their tissue density to the length of their shoulder muscles to forearm ratios and stuff like that. Being able to look at that stuff and talk to them is important. And the pressure to know your body, like you say, you won't know your body until you've been in it time and time again and you have a baseline or you have whatever. And also a lot of people don't really know a lot of things about themselves, until, sadly enough, something has gone wrong. Which that's why it's important when you're tying with new people in rope to take things easy and step it in, because if they haven't had something go wrong yet, like if you jump over a line, you can do damage. But if you just, if you gradually cruise up over to a line and just put your foot over a little bit and go, Oh, this is bad, this is too far, this is a bad pain. It's easy to come back from.

[00:51:53] Wren Yeah.

[00:51:54] Sparks So going into things like that slowly and monitored with experienced people around who have had those chances to look at things and, and problem solved before as well is important too.

[00:52:05] Wren Yeah, they can give input. They can help if, help with words or even help with just being there physically is really important. I think a great closing thing here is go slow. Is there a reason to go 0 to 100 in the beginning? Leave something for next time.

[00:52:23] Sparks Enjoy the process. Love the learning. The small simple things are where the greatest enjoyment is.

[00:52:29] Wren I love that well, where can people find you?

[00:52:33] Sparks Instagram if I've still got a profile up there, because they seem to love to take me down. @supaku_kinbaku is my Instagram at the moment. Otherwise shibari_adelaide on Instagram or FL, it's Sparks and Shibari Adelaide or on our website www.shibariadelaide.com like I mentioned before. And so yeah, if people want to get in contact there's plenty of ways they can contact me. Emails are on the website and that consent form is on the website for anyone who wants to use it. Highly recommend it. It's really helped me a lot.

[00:53:08] Wren Amazing Sparks, thank you so much. This is so great.

[00:53:11] Sparks Thank you very much. Thanks, friend. Thanks, Shibari Study. It's been an absolute pleasure.